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WORLD

INTERVIEW WITH MEIR VILNER

‘After 20 months

In Lebanon, the’

plan has failed’

“Just a few years ago, it was hard to
imagine that thousands of Israelis
would take to. the streets to protest
against their government's domestic
and foreign policies,’’ said Meir Vilner,
General Secretary of the Communist
Party of Israel and a member of the
Knesset (parliament).

In an interview with the Soviet news
agency Novosti, Vilner said the country
is now swept with discontent and mass
demonstrations are a regular fact of
Israeli life.

* * *

Vilner: Aggressive wars conducted
by Israel in’ the Middle East were
prompted not by Israel’s national secur-
ity interests, but by expansionist aims
of Zionist ruling circles. They were
subordinated to the common interests
of world imperialism which did not
want to accept the emergence of pro-
gressive national governments in the
region. —

The 1956 war was started right after.

the nationalization of the Suez Canal by
the Nasser government of Egypt; the
1967 war was launched against the pro-
gressive governments of Syria and
Egypt which, in western opinion, were
pursuing “‘too independent a political
course’”’.

The latest war against Lebanon is the
most barbarous and aggressive. To-
gether with the U.S., Israel is trying to
destroy the Palestine Liberation
Organization and the Lebanese patrio-
tic forces.

Israel intended to deal a direct blow
at Syria, at its armed forces which are in
Lebanon as part of the Arab force, and
then to possibly go even further, to
Damascus. The plan is to push Syria
from its anti-imperialist positions and to
turn Lebanon into an American mili-
tary base. :

The plan has failed, but it’s not possi-
ble to say that the U.S. and Israel have
given up.

Novosti: When it began its war against
Lebanon, Israel claimed its aim was sim-
ply to create a ‘‘zone of security’ and
that its troops would be home in a
month. Today, 20 months later, Israeli
troops are still in Lebanon. How long do
you think this situation will last? ©

Vilner: You'll recall that Begin prom-
ised to end the war in 48 hours, or at
most in two or three days. He reassured
the Knesset that the military objective
was to create a 40 kilometer-long ‘‘buf-
fer zone’’.

But the war went on. It soon became
clear the army was marching to Beirut
and that a large scale, long-term mili-
tary operation had been planned, not of
several hours but of several years.

This operation failed to achieve its
desired results. The PLO is not routed.
The Lebanese patriotic forces are deal-
ing one blow after another against the
aggressors. Pressure on Syria has
proven ineffective.

Washington has become directly in-
volved but it cannot conquer a people
even with the marines or its barbarous
shelling.and bombing.

8 e PACIFIC TRIBUNE, MARCH 7, 1984

The Israeli army has been in Leba-
non since June 6, 1982 and it’s difficult
to say how long they will stay. Together
with the U.S., Israel is stuck in a quag-
mire, just as happened to the U.S. in
Vietnam.

Novosti: How do Israelis feel about the
war? Judging from press reports the
wave of protests is growing. How do you
interpret this?

Vilner: The first demonstration took
place one week after the invasion of
Lebanon. Organized by the Committee
Against the War in Lebanon, it drew
20,000 people. In July, 1982 a move-
ment called Peace Now staged a
demonstration in which 100,000 par-
ticipated.

After the tragedy of Sabra and
Shatila demonstrations shook the coun-
try. The largest protest took place in Tel
Aviv with 400,000 people, or 20 per
cent of Israeli’s adult population.

Today there are many peace move-
ments — Parents Against the War, Sol-
diers Against Silence, Enough is
Enough. The latter movement consists
mainly of reservists who are obliged to
serve in the army from one to three
months each year, now mainly in
Lebanon.

Many are refusing to become in-
volved in aggression, preferring jail in-
stead. In the past this would not have
happened because Zionist propaganda
has always done its best to convince the
people that Israel’s ‘‘security in-
terests’’ are more important than
whether an action is right or wrong.

There are interesting developments
in the Knesset too. You may recall that
our parliamentary faction introduced a

_motion the day the war was launched
‘calling for no confidence in the

government. We alone voted for the
motion, nine other members abstained
and the rest supported the war.

Now we are seeing something else.
Recently an MP, Shevah Weiss, made a
self-critical speech in the Knesset say-
ing he had made a mistake 20 months
ago and should have supported our mo-
tion.

In a recent newspaper interview the
chairman of the Labor Party faction,
Moishe Shahal, said that now he op-
poses the war in general — whether it’s
40, 10 or even one kilometer away. One
of the leaders of that party, Gad
Yakovy, suddenly announced he had
opposed the war from the start.

Even Sharon has come up with a
demagogical statement that when the
government decided to attack Lebanon
he was abroad. This is particularly cyn-
ical because everyone knows that Sha-
ron and Begin were the masterminds of
this war.

What’s happening is obvious: these
people understand the war has become
unpopular. They understand that if they
don’t want their political boat to sink,
they must now disassociate themselves
from the war policy.

Examining a detailed map of Beirut, Israeli officers plan the next attack. Photo below:
Beirut in flames, thousands killed and maimed.

Novosti: How has the war affected the
country’s economy?

Vilner: Israel is on the brink of eco-
nomic disaster. The war has exacer-
bated the crisis. In 1981 the annual in-
flation rate was 101 per cent, in 1983 it
climbed to 190 per cent.

Israel’s foreign debt, mainly to the
U.S., stands at $30-billion, with the
compound interest growing each day.
Today the country spends 38 per cent of
its budget to pay for U.S. weapons and
another 35 per cent to wage war — a
total of 73 per cent.

Allocations for public health, hous-
ing, education and other social needs
are being axed. Since the Likud Party
came to power the number of people
living below the poverty level has dou-
bled. This means every eighth Israeli
falls into this category.

Novosti: The western press reports
often about U.S. aid to Israel. How much
is this aid? .

Vilner: In 1984 alone, military aid to-
talled $1.4-billion. For the first time this
was given as a “‘gift’’, in effect, pay-
ment for the war in Lebanon and the
blood of Israeli soldiers.

People have begun to notice that the
more the U.S. ‘‘aids’’ Israel, the worse
the economy becomes. The war de-
vours everything. A calm day in Leba-
non costs Israel $1-million, a day of
hostilities $3-million.

Novosti: Sometimes Washington
mildly criticizes Israel for an ‘‘overly-
tough line’. How would you explain
this?

Vilner: It’s a game. While supporting
Israeli aggression, Washington is still
mindful of its relations with con-
servative Arab states. Also there’s the
problem in a U.S. election year: how to
win the Zionist lobby in the U.S. while
not losing the support of other com-
munities supporting the Arab struggle.

While mildly criticizing Israel’s more
blatant crimes, the U.S. uses Israel’s
experience in Central America and Af-
rica where it handles the dirtiest deals
Washington wants to avoid handling it-

self — such as arms supplies to
dictatorships and sending officers to
South Africa, El Salvador, etc.

Novosti: How strong are reactionary
forces in Israel today?

Vilner: Faced with growing opposi-
tion and activization of democratic
forces, reaction is mobilizing too.
There are various fascist groups operat-
ing which stage attacks and throw
bombs at demonstrators.

Reactionary nationalist sentiments
are especially strong among the col-
onizers in the occupied territories.
Armed reprisals against the Arab
people are common. It should be re-
membered that the Zionist doctrine, ‘‘a
maximum of territory, a minimum of
Arabs”’ has not disappeared.

The Communist Party fights against
Zionist ideology and practices. We
openly oppose the aggressive course,
colonization and the savage oppression
of the Arab people in the occupied
lands.

Novosti: How do you see a realistic
solution to the Middle East crisis?

Vilner: First is the unconditional
withdrawal of U.S., Israeli and other
NATO troops from Lebanon and an
end to anti-Syrian threats and pro-
vocations.

Then it is imperative the Palestinian
Arab people achieve the right to self-
determination and the establishment of
their own independent state.

A just Middle East peace can only be
achieved under conditions of the com-
plete withdrawal by Israel from all Arab
territories occupied since 1967 and the
guaranteed right of all nations and

states in the region, including the state

of Israel, to a free.and secure existence.

The Middle East conflict can only be
resolved by a collective effort, by con-
vening an international conference of
all concerned parties which includes
the USSR, the U.S. and the PLO as the
only legitimate representative of the
Palestinian Arab people.

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